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Re: Bravo Joe!

By: Cactus Flower in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Tue, 17 Aug 21 7:04 AM | 20 view(s)
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Msg. 43108 of 54441
(This msg. is a reply to 43104 by clo2)

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I'm sympathetic to why we all left and that the Afghans were hopeless etc.

But there are issues with the decision and I prefer to examine them rather than accept answers to questions that aren't the ones that matter. This is a least-worst scenario. There are bad consequences with every choice, and the choice Biden took has risks and costs attached to it.

1. In my view, the original US mission was met because we (the US and its allies) rid Afghanistan of the Taliban and maintained a presence there that stopped them from returning to power. It isn't met by returning Afghanistan to the condition that caused the trouble in the first place.

2. AQ is not a thing that gets to be over in the way he describes. If you let it have territory it will metastasize. It's like cancer that way. So we just gave them a host country again. They will be so happy to have the Taliban back in Afghanistan. What's the plan to deal with that?

3. We (the US and allies) haven't been losing many lives (11 in 2020) or spending lots of money in Afghanistan recently. That's an exaggeration. The annual cost of staying there was tiny. The large chunk of the cost was years ago. The US had a very small number of troops there. As did we.

4. It's not a risk-free choice. We are risking another 9/11 to avoid these occupation costs.

Biden misrepresented the context and framed answers to the wrong questions in order to make his decision seem better than it was. Nevertheless, I understand why he made it and think one can argue it was the least bad one available. But it was still a bad decision, even if the other choices may have been worse.


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Bravo Joe!
By: clo2
in ALEA
Tue, 17 Aug 21 12:41 AM
Msg. 43104 of 54441

We wanted to find bin Laden & root out AQ.

Joe was opposed to the surge in 2009.

in part:
Biden added that the US national interest in Afghanistan has always been “preventing a terrorist attack on American home land,” and that that US mission had already been met.

Despite saying he was willing to take criticism over the decision to withdraw US troops from Afghanistan, Biden pointed fingers at a series of others for the unfolding crisis.

Biden blamed Afghanistan’s armed forces for not standing up to the Taliban’s lightning quick offensive, which put the repressive group back in control of the nation two decades after US troops helped toss the Taliban out of power and the creation of a democratic government.

The President also pointed to the top Afghan leaders as deserving blame.

“So, what happened?” Biden asked. “Afghanistan political leaders gave up and fled the country.”

The President said he had “frank conversations” with Afghan President Ashraf Ghani and Abdullah Abdullah, chairman of the Afghan delegation to peace talks, earlier this summer, but – ultimately – they didn’t take the US’ suggestions.

“We talked about how Afghanistan should prepare to fight their civil wars after the US military departed, to clean up the corruption in government, so the government could function for the Afghan people. We talked extensively about the need for Afghan leaders to unite politically. They failed to do any of that. I also urged them to engage in diplomacy, to seek a political settlement with the Taliban. This advice was flatly refused,” Biden said. “Mr. Ghani insisted that the Afghan forces would fight. And obviously he was wrong.”

Biden also laid part of the blame for the current situation on his predecessor, Donald Trump, who brokered a deal with the Taliban to withdraw American troops by May 1, 2021.

While the majority of Americans support the decision to end the military combat decision in Afghanistan, it remains to be seen how the botched withdrawal will be viewed by the public. The President aimed address potential detractors by asking them a hypothetical question: “How many more generations America’s daughters and sons would you have me send to fight in Afghanistan’s civil war when Afghan troops will not?”

“How many more lives, American lives, is it worth? How many endless rows of headstones Arlington National Cemetery? I’m clear on my answer,” he added.

The President also acknowledged the “gut-wrenching” scenes in Afghanistan, saying that “for those who have lost loved ones in Afghanistan and or Americans who have fought and served in the country, served our country in Afghanistan, this is deeply, deeply personal.”

Biden said that in the coming days the US military will provide assistance to evacuate more Afghans eligible for special immigration visas and their families to the US. Refugee access, he said, will also be expanded to cover “other vulnerable Afghans who work for our embassy … US nongovernmental organizations and Afghans who otherwise are a great risk, and US news agencies.”

The President on Monday claimed that the reason evacuations of SIV applicants were not conducted sooner – perhaps the biggest criticism his administration has received since announcing the withdrawal – was because some Afghans did not want to leave before the situation became dire. He again sought to blame the Afghan government, claiming its leaders were afraid of the optics.

“I know there are concerns about why we did not begin evacuating Afghan civilians sooner. Part of the answer is some of the Afghans did not want to leave earlier, still hopeful for their country. And part of it because the Afghan government and its supporters discouraged us from organizing a mass exodus to avoid triggering, as they said, a crisis of confidence,” Biden said.

http://www.cnn.com/2021/08/16/politics/biden-afghanistan-speech/index.html


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