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Re: My post to an economist ? FIZ 

By: micro in 6TH POPE | Recommend this post (2)
Fri, 15 Jul 22 9:19 PM | 25 view(s)
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Msg. 33661 of 60008
(This msg. is a reply to 33659 by Fiz)

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I like what I am reading thus far.. I also was a small business owner for over 35 years. I sold the company to one of my customers and retired from that manufacturing world I had been in for over 4 decades... Now I use my educational background and expertise in Engineering solutions and problems (mechanical discipline plus Manufacturing and Industrial engineering and a MBA) and we won;t talk about my "religious degrees."

Anyway, you are working on a tough problem.. The american attention span among mostly ignorant and Dumb people..

I applaud your effort and concerns about trying to educate the dumbed down masses and the truly ignorant who think the television is where education comes from.

Following not too far behind Ribs my wife and I are simply living and not paying attention too much to the daily destruction of America. We are too old at this stage of life to make an impact whichis why I teach in my spare time students who actually want to be taught.

I also do a lot of consulting and sales recommendations to clients all over 5 states and pass on my varied experiences I have learned running multiple manufacturing plants in my life. I am more readily tired aat this stage than I ever was before as well.

That said, my daughter is as high as she can go in teaching Sciences at her high school and this year will be helping other teachers to develop better plans and curriculum. My other one is a very highly ranked attorney in Virginia. So I enjoy the grandchildren when I can and do as little as possible when not consulting..

I want you to know I appreciate your thoughts and writing and now I aplaud your goal of trying to simplify what Democracy really is for the simple minded minions who vote. THAT is a huge challenge. But it is a great cause... It appears you are headed down the right road and doing the legwork to get it right but also recognize the average person you would share this with has to be spoon fed...

THAT is what I love about this board. It has thinking people who actually are smarter than a potato, unlike some other boards here at Bob's Place.

I wish I could help you more in this but I am too tired and too pressed for time.

My very best wishes for success in this battle for American freedom..

micro...


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The above is a reply to the following message:
My post to an economist
By: Fiz
in 6TH POPE
Fri, 15 Jul 22 6:46 PM
Msg. 33659 of 60008

http://defenseofcapitalism.blogspot.com/2009/12/americas-return-to-road-to-serfdom-by.html?sc=1657902968484#c6439447126364202287

My comment: Hayek's argument that Socialism is the Antithesis of Democracy seems most cogent and apropos for changing the minds of more people. I picked up a copy of Hayek's "Road to Serfdom" yesterday and attempted to get the 1 minute version of his logic, so I could use it more effectively. Maybe 30 minutes later I walked away and tried to find a synopsis which cut more to the chase. Why would I quit so easily? Because I am looking for an argument which will be apropos to the AVERAGE citizen in the US. There aren't enough economists, nor even business-owners in the US to tip the balance at the voting box, which is where the real danger lies.

I think the argument about economics of free markets is non-compelling and almost of no interest to the average citizen. So Hayek's argument stressing free markets is kind of a waste, or maybe it is just self-evident to some and of little interest right now to the remainder.

On the other hand, sharpening up the argument that Democracy and Socialism are mutually exclusive would, I think, be wiser. You probably have 1 minute to get the point across to the average citizen and people who are struggling to survive in a fiat system where markets are ALWAYS, by definition, NOT FREE, is probably a wasted effort if the purpose is, as you say, to save the US while we possibly still can.

Thoughts? Can you perhaps direct me to an article which really sharpens up and sticks to the single point that Democracy (individual choice) and Socialism (no choice as an individual except which pre-approved poison to take) cannot coexist for long? People don't get it. Even I didn't get it until last night -- and I've had Hayek's book sitting on a shelf for probably twenty years because it has SO MUCH fluff in the way of the core arguments. IMO, of course, as a practical Ayn Rand fan and small business owner.
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Here is, IMO, the most impactful comment to make:
(1) Democracy is about CHOICE. Your ability to CHOOSE THE RULES, within an honestly competitive ideological spectrum, under which you will live...or die.
(2) Socialism is about massively PRE-RESTRICTED choice of rules. If ideas don't fit into the "average" head of the populace it is BY DEFINITION off the table as a possibility.

Conversely, no matter how destructive and nonsensical an existing policy is, it is effectively unstoppable under Socialism -- because the AVERAGE citizen has already made their choice of bad choices.

(3) Therefore, if you are a Socialist you are IPSO FACTO AGAINST DEMOCRACY (Choice). If you don't realize that, you are an ignorant voter who is actually ANTI democratic.

Consider if you would favor "democracy" in a field where the only ALLOWED choices were whether you, as a Jew, are going to go into hiding or turn yourself in to the State. Hitler WAS elected DEMOCRATICALLY. He had the popular vote. So the Jews weren't murdered, they couldn't be murdered...they must have committed suicide in the service of the Collective and the State.

Nazism IS Socialism. The Nazi Party,[a] officially the National SOCIALIST German Workers' Party (German: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei[b] or NSDAP)

If people don't like that clear line of reasoning I suggest you ask them to define, EXACTLY what "Socialsm" is. When they say something like "People choice" of the economy and the rules ask them "according to what COLLECTIVE?" ... and how can that possibly be consonant with INDIVIDUAL freedom?

P.S. I'm posting this on Atomic Bob's in the hope that someone here can critique my argument and possibly help me make it more cogent and effective. I really think it needs to be a 1 minute piece of logic, tops, which will PUT -- and keep -- THE SOCIALIST ON THE DEFENSIVE. Right now, Socialism has a free pass in public discourse; even people who are logically "smart" and of good-will don't realize what the core, decisive PREMISE of "Socialism" actually is!


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