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Re: Thoreau (cactus flower reply)

By: clo2 in ALEA | Recommend this post (0)
Tue, 13 Sep 22 8:56 PM | 35 view(s)
Boardmark this board | The Trust Matrix 		Msg. 47030 of 54809
(This msg. is a reply to 47026 by Fiz)
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"The 2020 election cycle OUGHT TO HAVE BEEN thoroughly carefully watched and thoroughly investigated. It was not. It intentionally was not. Covid lockdowns were used to justify a vast expansion in mail in ballots, which could not be carefully monitored."

That election was tested in the courts more than any other. Many of the judges were appointed by Trump.
Trump LOST. Period!

Washington state & Utah have been mail in for years, no problem.
Voter fraud is miniscule & in the 2020 election it was mostly republicans charged.

As for Rudy, I'll be surprised if he isn't found guilty.
Watch Georgia.

If you want to question an election, look at the 2000, Al lost in Florida by 537 votes, & the governor was the brother of GWB & SCOTUS made a decision, but said it could never be used in the future to help another case...

We accepted that & didn't attack the Capital.

After the 2020 United States presidential election, the campaign for incumbent President Donald Trump and others filed and lost at least 63 lawsuits[1] contesting election processes, vote counting, and the vote certification process in multiple states, including Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.[2] Among the judges who dismissed the lawsuits were some appointed by Trump himself.[3]

Nearly all the suits were dismissed or dropped due to lack of evidence.[4] Judges, lawyers, and other observers described the suits as "frivolous"[5] and "without merit".[6][7] In one instance, the Trump campaign and other groups seeking his reelection collectively lost multiple cases in six states on a single day.[8] Only one ruling was initially in Trump's favor: the timing within which first-time Pennsylvania voters must provide proper identification if they wanted to “cure” their ballots. This ruling affected very few votes,[9] and it was later overturned by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court.[10]

Trump, his attorneys, and his supporters falsely[11] asserted widespread election fraud in public statements, but few such assertions were made in court.[12] Every state except Wisconsin[13] met the December 8 statutory "safe harbor" deadline to resolve disputes and certify voting results. The Trump legal team had said it would not consider this election certification deadline as the expiration date for its litigation of the election results.[14][15][16] Three days after it was filed by Texas attorney general Ken Paxton, the U.S. Supreme Court on December 11 declined to hear a case supported by Trump and his Republican allies asking for electoral votes in four states to be rejected.[17]

One suit, Michigan Welfare Rights Org. et al. v. Donald J. Trump et al., was brought by black voter groups in Michigan against Trump and his 2020 presidential campaign.[18][19][20] Dominion Voting Systems brought defamation lawsuits against former Trump campaign lawyers Sidney Powell and Rudy Giuliani, each for $1.3 billion.[21][22] Smartmatic brought a defamation lawsuit against Fox Corporation and its anchors Lou Dobbs, Maria Bartiromo, and Jeanine Pirro as well as Giuliani and Powell for $2.7 billion.[23]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_U.S._presidential_election

States With All-Mail Elections
2/3/2022
Our organization does not run elections and cannot provide legal advice. If you are a voter looking for assistance, please contact your local election official. You can find your local election official's website and contact information by using this database from the US Vote Foundation.

This table is part of NCSL’s Voting Outside the Polling Place report.

In all-mail elections, all registered voters are sent a ballot in the mail. The voter marks the ballot, puts it in a secrecy envelope or sleeve and then into a separate mailing envelope, signs an affidavit on the exterior of the mailing envelope and returns the package via mail or by dropping it off.

Ballots are mailed out well ahead of Election Day, and thus voters have an “election period,” not just a single day, to vote. All-mail elections can be thought of as absentee voting for everyone. This system is also referred to as “vote by mail.”

Eight states—California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Vermont and Washington—allow all elections to be conducted by mail.

Two states—Nebraska and North Dakota—permit counties to opt into conducting elections by mail.

Nine states—Alaska, Arizona, Florida, Kansas, Maryland, Missouri, Montana, New Mexico and Wyoming—allow specific small elections to be conducted by mail.

Four states—Idaho, Minnesota, New Jersey and New Mexico—permit all-mail elections for certain small jurisdictions.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/vopp-table-18-states-with-all-mail-elections.aspx


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Thoreau (cactus flower reply)
By: Fiz in ALEA
Tue, 13 Sep 22 6:27 PM 		Msg. 47026 of 54809

"I have no interest in individuals who think themselves wiser than the people, taken as a whole, and who propound and employ violence against the elected government as a tool. Nor in those who seek to undermine or control the election machinery to procure the results they wish for. Both belong in jail."

I TOTALLY agree with you here!

The US has long had persistent, SYSTEMIC problems in large-scale voter and judiciary fraud. Did you know that? In particular, in our largest cities it is well documented:

(e.g., Chicago http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/164338, New York http://www.history.com/topics/us-politics/tammany-hall. Baltimore http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Crew. Philidephia http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2020/11/07/philadelphias_long_history_of_corruption_and_fraud_528760.html) the fraud has historically been recurrent and rampant.)

You know why, right? Many, arguably most, of the largest US cities were effectively "ruled" by major, interconnected Mafia crime family syndicates as recently as a few decades ago? Those crime families still remain in those cities, even as they have taken measures to lower their profile and hide their past.

Do to the distributed nature of our system, one large MODERN city can easily swing a Congressional or even a Presidential election for an entire state. A FEW states, in this way, can easily swing a federal election. The US is, again, not a "pure" Democracy. It was built to tie together a bunch of geographically and culturally "independent" communities and INDEPENDENT states. That is what our system is good for. But only if the elections are demonstrably FAIR and the people are not too divided. If a MAJOR city or two is corrupted, the whole election can be corrupted.

Are you aware that "Speaker of the House" Nancy Pelsi is the daughter of a Mafia-connected family that dominated Baltimore? http://www.baltimoresun.com/politics/bs-md-pol-dalesandro-family-20191021-w5ftn3ue2zdhfhzvvjr6fmu644-story.html. http://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/18321673-nancy-pelosi-s-father-had-baltimore-mafia-ties.

Have you seen the movie The Godfather? That was not wild fantasy, I hope you know? It was fictional, but largely historically based. You might want to watch it again, to get some real idea of how things work in “the family” and how little control the legitimate US government HAS of the situation.

Are you aware that Rudy Giuliani was instrumental in wrecking the crime family syndicate and its stranglehold on governance in NY City? That happened only in 1986: http://themobmuseum.org/notable_names/rudolph-giuliani/. http://detailedpedia.com/wiki-Mafia_Commission_Trial.

http://www.coreysdigs.com › law-order › rudy-rico-and-clinton-inc-racketeeringRudy, RICO, and Clinton Inc. Racketeering - coreysdigs.com
“Rudy Giuliani, an expert on RICO, as the first prosecutor to use RICO in a major federal case, has stated in numerous interviews that this evidence, as well as other pieces of evidence warrants a criminal investigation into the Clintons and the use of their official positions for personal profit.”

Giuliani went on to be elected mayor of NY City and he left it in VASTLY better shape when he left office (it was a real mess, in every sense, before). The argument can be defended that Giuliani IS a real hero, with real courage and integrity. Taking on the mafia as he did could have easily cost him dearly...his life or more, because that is how the mafia operates. (Again, I suggest The Godfather as an education for you on how things really worked in the US at that time)

Hopefully you recognize the name Rudy Giuliani? He took on the role of investigating the claims of systematic voter fraud after the 2020 election. Certain elements within “the State” attached to the Democratic party attacked him. He is no fool, no tool, and arguably an incredibly brave and honest man, as is well documented in his history of routing out corruption as a lawyer, prosecutor, Mafia buster, and NY mayor. He has approximately as much substantiated integrity as the Queen of England, I would say.

He also played a major role in uncovering the Hunter Biden laptop. Which the Administrative State in collaboration with the main stream media conveniently and systematically denied and suppressed...until the "election" was over. But which is now acknowledged as REAL.

I had a much longer response written, but it got eaten before I could post it. I am posting this with inadequate editing, but hopefully it gives you significant food for thought. To put it bluntly, but I think honestly: you are not COMPETENT to have too solid an opinion on US politics, the deficiencies in US politics because you don't have near enough background knowledge, and especially not lifelong boots-on-the-ground knowledge.

You didn't even know who Thoreau was, which is understandable, but indicative of a VAST ignorance about how things actually work in the US. But you are jumping into US politics, and taking a side, when you clearly aren't competent to do that.

You are clearly a REALLY SMART AND WELL EDUCATED individual. I mean that sincerely. And you are also gracious and, I think, broad-minded in giving me space here to say what I am saying. But, just as it would be dangerous for me to jump in and start lecturing you and other well-educated UK citizens on the deficiencies and cures for English politics, you are not competent to speak too much about US politics and our recent travails.

You may know the technical difference between a democracy and a republic, but you don't know that experiential, because you haven't lived your life in THIS Republic...and watched the corruption spreading through the institutions, especially the schools. You don't really know our history very well, particularly the historic problems of Mafia-run cities and Mafia-run politics.

The US holds together, at this juncture, ONLY because it is a very, very well-built Republic, with lots of checks and balances. At this point we have an oligarchy in control of the CENTRALIZED reins of power in the US (the US was supposed to remain decentralized, with power going citizen->state-federal; that has now been Unconstitutionally undermined).

At this point US elections are ONLY meant to serve as Bread and Circus: to keep the citizens placated and keep the Administrative State and its toadies in power. The 2016 election cycle took the US oligarchy by surprise; much as BREXIT apparently did in the UK.

The 2020 election cycle OUGHT TO HAVE BEEN thoroughly carefully watched and thoroughly investigated. It was not. It intentionally was not. Covid lockdowns were used to justify a vast expansion in mail in ballots, which could not be carefully monitored.

The US Founders were generally quite educated and, in particular, they admired the historian Polybius. His analysis of why the early Roman republic was so resilient and relatively civil, informed them. They modified the Roman formula to make it even more resistant to corruption.

It is stunning how ignorant the average American NOW is about history in general and the origins of the US system, in particular. Few in the US can now tell you the distinction between a democracy and a republic, in spite of the fact that THE US WAS CAREFULLY DESIGNED NOT AS A "DEMOCRACY" BUT RATHER AS A REPUBLIC and that the difference is vast.

Benjamin Franklin: http://thenewamerican.com/a-republic-if-you-can-keep-it/


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P.S. What is the source of the long quote? I presume it was originally in Latin and you quoted it to make some particular point? I confess I don't speak Latin, although I have studied Roman history somewhat.

I hope to keep on corresponding with you. I don't think the gap between us is irreconcilable, and I respect your reasoned arguments. I hope you will take the time to reasonably consider mine.

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