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Re: The Racist History of the Democratic Party 1864-2020 

By: Cactus Flower in ALEA | Recommend this post (1)
Wed, 21 Sep 22 8:03 PM | 66 view(s)
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Msg. 47186 of 54813
(This msg. is a reply to 47183 by Fiz)

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I am going to reply to this line, but I need to think about it a bit.

"Since 'to govern' MEANS 'to restrict degrees of freedom, how can you be 'liberal' while going crazy growing government?"

I certainly don't begin where you do as to the implication of the word "liberal" or the meaning of the words "to govern". Law is an essential slice of liberty. It's just anarchy without it. And anyway, sometimes restrictions create opportunities. What are property rights but a form of restriction? And yet they are the underlying essence of ownership and markets, which we count as freedoms of a sort.

And for myself, I imagine there's a quantity of government that is the most efficient amount, but I have no idea how a person can calculate what it is, so I don't try. Nor do I care much if an idea is labelled socialist or capitalist. I only care if things work better than the alternative, recognising that any choices we make often have BOTH benefits and costs. The market is the right solution for many things. Government works for others. There's also the space in which markets and governments operate in tandem. Different countries make different choices, and may reasonably do so, because our freedoms allow us to define different answers to the questions that we face.

But this is all rather abstract and highfalutin. I'm going to answer later with some examples.


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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: The Racist History of the Democratic Party 1864-2020
By: Fiz
in ALEA
Wed, 21 Sep 22 6:05 PM
Msg. 47183 of 54813

"If you are interested, and I'm not sure you are, I count myself mostly an English Conservative, which is by no means the same thing as an American Conservative, and yet they fly under the same name. British conservatism is tethered to the ideas of Burke, who thought of his doctrines as pragmatic: whatever works is what is best. He was particularly enthusiastic about preserving institutions that have developed over time and wary of new ones unless they were necessary and served a useful purpose. He was very much not excited by the promotion of ideologies (capitalism! socialism!) and dogmas of the sort with which the American right (and indeed the British left) is so involved. Nor would he have had any interest in right wing labelling or left wing identity politics."

I DO find this interesting! I rail somewhat regularly about the perversion of words, and nonsensical 'conservative' vs. 'liberal' labels, in particular. Do 'conservatives' work hard to CONSERVE? Do 'liberals' focus on enlarging LIBERTY? Since 'to govern' MEANS 'to restrict degrees of freedom, how can you be 'liberal' while going crazy growing government?

Someone recently described me as a classic liberal. I strongly favor personal liberty and individuality. On the other hand, I do try to conserve, and steward nature, and I strongly oppose corporatism and the vast aggrandizement of wealth and power they enable (corporations are not humans and they certainly shouldn't have more 'rights' than humans; we should be taxing the s#!+ out of them and immediately piercing the corporate veil, to bankrupt the insiders, anytime the corporation externalizes losses without adequate insurance). Bayer/Monsanto? Don't even get me started...!

I need to read more about Burkean Conservtism. Maybe that is a good label for me?

Thanks for explaining more.

I travel the country widely, and also travel outside the country quite a bit. I see very little racism vs. how things used to be. The strongest elements of racism seem to come from New York, in particular, and the New England states in general. The perpetrators don't CALL what they do 'racism' but they continue to segregate themselves and put others down without giving them equal consideration.

There is a 'caste system' strongly entrenched on the US eastern coast, in particular, which has the stench of racism, and, in my opinion, an even more insidious effect, because it is so much easier to hide (hard to discern and ferret out).

The elitists really like their 'servants' subjugated and segregated. The "Ivy League" colleges seem to cultivate the distinction that their alumni are, ipso facto, somehow better. What you see when you look closer at these institutions, and the top levers of political and banking power, is a massive oligarchy -- an aristocracy of PULL, more than of actual talent.

The Mafia Families are strongly intertwined now with the other oligarchs. It has the feel of the closing scene in Animal Farm:

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."


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