Msg. 41344 of 60008 (This msg. is a reply to
41339 by
Zimbler0)
Jump:
Thinking back, Fiz, I believe you said something about figuring out the cost versus reward for war . . .
What is it worth to the people of the U.S. not to have state sanctioned terrorists trying to topple our skyscrapers?
What is it worth to the U.S. to have 'friends and allies' who will fight with U.S. against our common enemies?
How do we convince the worlds terror mongers that attacking the U.S. is a very bad idea?
How do we convince China and Russia that trying to subjugate the U.S. is a bad idea?
These are intangibles. . . Hard to quantify the value. . . But if we don't achieve those objectives it will be only a matter of time before the U.S. ceases to exist.
Fiz > The US has LOST, the more wars we have fought.
Sorry Fiz,
But a lot depends on what America's objectives were as to whether we 'Won' or 'Lost'.
So, let me take a trip down memory lane.
After the 1776 War of Independence - which we won and enforced our independence. We had the War of 1812 where we had to kick the Brit's Tails again to preserve our Independence. We remained free of English control. Victory.
Then there were the Tripolitan Wars - Barbary Pirates in North Africa and more pirates in the Middle East. Took two campaigns but converted them into 'believers'. No more pirate problem - Victory for Team U.S.A.
There was a little War with Mexico - actually Texicans declared their independence from Mexico and a few years after the smoke cleared Texas joined the United States. America got bigger and Mexico got smaller. Again, U.S. Victory.
Then there was the American Civil War. Personally I don't think we had any real 'Winners' in that one.
Next came the Spanish American War. When that was over the Spaniards were no longer in the America's and I believe the U.S. took possession of the Phillipines and a few other places in both the Far East and the America's Could've expanded our tax base . . . After WWII (I believe it was) 'We' spun the Phillipines off as an independent country.
WWI anybody? Our objective in that War was to help our Allies, the Brits and the French, keep from being subjugated by the Germans. Germany lost WWI.
WWII. Once again Germany and Japan bent on world domination. Early in that War Russia could have made it a triumvirate (I'm ignoring Italy as a two bit player) . . . Till Hitler made the fatal mistake of trying to invade Russia. Again, our objective was to keep our Allies free. Germany and Japan lost.
Korea. Korea was a stalemate. For all the loss of life and expenditures of funds and ammunition the war ended right about where it started.
Vietnam we lost. Politically.
Iraq invaded Kuwait . . . Our objective was to kick Iraq back out of Kuwait and make that oil well an independent country again. Mission Accomplished - Victory U.S.
Afghanistan. Bush had the right idea. Turn the place upside down and shake it real good. Then keep a lid on it and let the Afghans themselves figure things out. Barak Obozo screwed up majorly shoveling an American Army of Occupation in there . . . cost U.S. a LOT of American lives and money. Finally, biden surrendered to the towel headed terrorist minded taliban. LOSS.
The second U.S. versus Iraq War. That was the correct War to fight in the War On Terror. For a number of reasons only one of which was in the Congressional authorization to invade. The Iraqi's themselves tried and executed saddam hussein. Today it looks like Iraq is an independent country. Iraq may have an internal problem with terrorists . . . but I don't see Iraq trying to use terrorists to attack other countries. I'd call that a Win.
Like I said. 'Victory' depends more on what the objectives for fighting were.
In Ukraines case, 'Victory' should mean kicking the Russians out of ALL of Ukraine and having both Donbas and Crimea back into their tax base. Hopefully kicking the Russians butts convincingly enough that they will decide peace with the rest of the world is preferable to trying to expand their tax base via conquest.
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