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Re: Oh, the irony. 

By: Beldin in ALEA | Recommend this post (4)
Wed, 01 Feb 17 3:50 AM | 93 view(s)
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Msg. 20920 of 54919
(This msg. is a reply to 20916 by Cactus Flower)

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No, those two articles are by the former Assistant United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York and law professor at the New York Law School and Fordham University Law School.

"The law isn't an equation." Laughing Don't look now, but you're dissolving into the ever wishy-washy la la land of "everything is relative - especially when the facts are against me."

Read the law, again.

Section 1182(f), Title 8, U.S. Code - states, "Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he may deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate."

The law is clear and unambiguous. According to the law, President Trump absolutely has the authority to issue the EO that he did - period. So, you have missed the point. That is the law - whether you like the law or not. If you don't like it, then you are free to advocate for its change.

Meanwhile, what is being shown by all of this childish whining by those on the left side of the aisle about clearly constitutional EOs issued by President Trump ... when they were quite happy about all of President Obama's EOs - many of which were clearly unconstitutional ... is that to leftists the law is relative depending on their political whims du jour. Such leftist hypocrisy is being recognized by more and more Americans with each passing day.




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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Oh, the irony.
By: Cactus Flower
in ALEA
Wed, 01 Feb 17 1:21 AM
Msg. 20916 of 54919

Well, that's a slight improvement. Well done. You are starting to try to support your assertions. One law. And two articles from a right wing magazine.

But even so, you still don't get it. You missed the point. The law isn't an equation.

You are assuming that the statute you cite is the be-all and end-all of the conversation. That your reading of one law declares certainty of argument and judgement. Or rather, your reading of an article and the author's conclusion equals "a fact".

I'm afraid that isn't how things work.

There's more law than one title in one section of one statute that a court will look at. This is why you have judges who preside over courts which consider competing arguments. One set of attorneys will say - this is about such and such. Another will say, no, that's wrong, here's why and this is what matters.

You may take sides. But the court decides. It might clarify areas of conflict between different laws. It might decide to disregard elements of the argument of each side. There's nuance in a judgement.

So for instance, the question in this case likely involves the establishment clause. What is your refutation of the opinion that the establishment clause is particularly relevant? It appears you think you can trump a constitutional rights statement using an immigration law? Usually, it kinda works the other way around. If there's a conflict between the constitution and a statute, the constitution wins.

So there's an important principle which you don't seem to know.

It doesn't mean the court will accept the invocation of the establishment clause. The president has wide - but not total - discretion in matters of national security. I am just pointing out that you don't know how to argue the law in the way that courts require attorneys to.

You still think the law is an equation. So I suggest you read some about this before suggesting once again that you are "asserting a fact" when in fact you are revealing a methodological deficiency. For a second time. Hey, I'm trying to be nice. You get some free learning on the alea board!

I also asked in my previous post how you would argue against the suits of the ACLU, the state of Washington and the previous AG's memorandum? Still waiting.

Here's some help in getting started:

"Ferguson argues that the Executive Order violates the U.S. Constitution’s guarantee of Equal Protection and the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause, infringes individuals’ constitutional right to Due Process and contravenes the federal Immigration and Nationality Act.

Major Washington state institutions supported the Attorney General’s lawsuit through declarations filed alongside the complaint. In their declarations, Amazon and Expedia set forth the detrimental ways the Executive Order impacts their operations and their employees."

http://www.atg.wa.gov/news/news-releases/ag-ferguson-seeks-halt-trump-s-immigration-executive-order

Oh wait! It looks like three whole constitutional principles are involved in the argument. That's going to require a whole lot of thinking.

ps you might notice I suggested a principle that works in your favour, so you have something to employ as well as your statute. Good luck. I will look forward to your refutation and the several laws and constitutional principles which support your argument.


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