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Re: Oh, the irony. 

By: Beldin in ALEA | Recommend this post (6)
Thu, 02 Feb 17 10:59 PM | 85 view(s)
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Msg. 20964 of 54915
(This msg. is a reply to 20949 by Cactus Flower)

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Ah, Cactus Flower - ever pedantic, as usual.

No, the fact that resident aliens are granted some of our Constitutional rights while they are here is simply a fact and has nothing whatsoever to do with any political persuasion. However, what you fail to grasp is the "while they are here" ... under our jurisdiction ... part. I know you are struggling under severe, personal limitations, so allow me to explain it to you as straightforward as possible ... foreigners who do not possess U.S. residency authorization ... either because they once had it and it expired or was revoked or because they never had it in the first place ... do not enjoy ANY of our rights under The United States Constitution. Now, if you're still stupidly harping on about green card holders, that has already been taken care of - from the Communist/Clinton "News" Network: http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/02/politics/donald-trump-immigration-ban/index.html

No, Trump's EO is undeniably authorized by our long-standing immigration law ... it's right there in front of your face, but you apparently are not rational enough to handle any facts that are inconvenient to your political outlook. Now, if a leftist judge wants to take a shot at declaring Trump's EO as unconstitutional, then ... if he has any hope of making it stick ... he will have to successfully sustain that our long-standing immigration law is unconstitutional, first.

Cheers!




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The above is a reply to the following message:
Re: Oh, the irony.
By: Cactus Flower
in ALEA
Thu, 02 Feb 17 12:59 PM
Msg. 20949 of 54915

Okay.

So it seems you now admit that people that aren't US citizens but are residents have constitutional rights. "wishful thinking by leftists who want to ascribe U.S. Constitutional rights to non-U.S. citizens," has become "non-citizen RESIDENTS ... are afforded some of the rights under the U.S. Constitution."

Golly. You are now officially a leftist by your own definition. See what spending time on this board does to you.

Now for part two: why sections of the EO may not be impregnable.

1. You are missing the categories of aliens who aren't seeking admission for the first time, have constitutional rights, aren't permanent residents, and are affected by the EO. I'll leave you to figure who is in that category. Once you figure it out, you'll realise the constitutional arguments are germane at a minimum with respect to this group.

2. By their words, the administration and its surrogates have strengthened the argument that the EO is a religious ban in disguise. There's plenty of domestic and international law which suggests discrimination on the basis of religion is unlawful. Personally, I don't know why religions are protected, but this is a discussion of the law, and not of whether it is right.

3. But assuming the text of the EO reflects the executive's sincere concern about those seven countries, then it appears to breach the same US immigration law you cite as the source of authority for the president's proclamation. INA says: "no person shall receive any preference or priority or be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of the person’s race, sex, nationality, place of birth, or place of residence."

4. Refugees seeking asylum and especially those facing the risk of torture are a protected category. The US has obligations under domestic and international law, including within INA. The EO ignores these. You can't cherry-pick the clauses that suit you and disregard those that don't. And of course, as I explained previously, the EO is vulnerable to laws other than INA. The law isn't an equation.

5. The process employed by the executive in implementing the EO was deficient in treating a matter which involves substantive rights. Boring but nevertheless problematic for the administration.

The courts will decide how this EO is interpreted.


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